How Modern Surveying Reduces Project Risk

Episode Transcript

Mollie (Host)
Welcome to {Brief}ly Speaking, the SEH podcast where we tackle the topics shaping architecture, engineering, and construction with quick expert insights. I'm Mollie Sabo, your host. Most people only notice surveying when they see someone standing roadside behind a tripod. But behind nearly every successful infrastructure project is a survey team collecting the data that makes design, construction, and long-term asset management possible. And the industry is changing fast. Today's survey professionals are using drones, LiDAR, GPS, 3D scanning, and digital modeling to capture information with a level of speed and accuracy that would have been hard to imagine even a decade ago. At the same time, expectations are growing. Projects are moving faster, sites are more complex, and owners need data that can support decisions far beyond the design phase. Today we're talking about how surveying has evolved from boundary lines and topographic maps into one of the foundational pieces of modern infrastructure delivery. Joining me is Keith Nikovich, a licensed land surveyor and professional engineer with experience supporting private, state, and federally funded projects. His combined experience in both surveying and engineering gives him a unique perspective on how field data directly impacts project design, coordination, and construction outcomes. So Keith, welcome to {Brief}ly Speaking.

Keith (Guest)
Hi Mollie. Thank you for inviting me. I'm happy to be here.

Mollie (Host)
I'm excited to talk surveying. This is kind of, like I said, a foundational piece of projects that I think often gets overlooked. So I'm excited to shed some light on it. When most people hear surveying, they still picture the stakes and property lines, the residential vibes. How has the role of surveyors changed in today's infrastructure environment?

Keith (Guest)
Well, talking about property lines and stakes, we actually still do those things. I don't anticipate that changing, but we also do so much more now. To make my answer to this question more interesting, I'd actually like to take a look back and then tie that into where we are now. Boundary surveying stakes and boundary lines is still foundational to our profession. And it dates back to as early as 2700 BC when ancient Egyptians began establishing and reestablishing property boundaries along the Nile. The surveyors at that time were known as rope stretchers and they used specialized measuring ropes to reestablish farm boundaries after the Nile's annual floods for taxation and property rights. Later, around the first century AD, the Romans were the first civilization to establish land surveying as a formal profession. These surveyors also used cutting-edge technology and tools to measure the perfect right angles and grades. They were the backbone of the empire's engineering and territorial expansion, laying the foundation for urban grids, massive road networks, and precise aqueduct gradients. Actually, these Roman surveyors are said to have been highly respected in Roman society, sometimes regarded with nobility. While we're not quite regarded the same way today, unfortunately, we continue to share the same foundational goals of measuring boundaries, defining property rights, and mapping infrastructure. We're still using cutting-edge technology, now in the form of GPS, or global positioning system, networks, scanners, drones, and other robotic equipment. So what has been the biggest change for us? It's rare now to be developing land that has been untouched. In fact, many times we are dealing with massive amounts of infrastructure all around us. Picture an intersection in the middle of any major city in this country. You may have the traffic signals, sidewalks, roads, skyscrapers. Below the ground are complex networks of utility lines. We are now mapping and modeling all of this infrastructure as it all needs to be accounted for. The amount of data we are collecting now has changed. It had to. Instead of only measuring individual points one at a time, now we have the ability of capturing millions of data points rapidly. We've become the managers of this data and have become data analysts as well. We collect quality control and pass along huge amounts of data to our customers for a variety of uses. The other change I should note is the speed in which we are operating. We're surveying areas of land now in a day, which would have taken maybe weeks, 20 years ago.

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Mollie (Host)
Yeah, you took it way back there all the way to the Romans and the aqueducts. But you're right, like this is a foundational piece of it. It has been around forever and it's drastically evolved. Speed, technology, everything you just hit on there is exactly what we're going to talk about today and why it's so beneficial to clients. So survey data now feeds into everything from design models to asset management systems. How important is accurate field data at the beginning of a project?

Keith (Guest)
Can't overemphasize the need for accurate survey data at the beginning of a design project. Unless you like designing projects twice, you're going to want accurate data upfront. How do we get accurate data? Well, the first steps are research and planning. This could entail researching the property boundaries near the project sites, determining survey datums, then the planning and execution of an accurate survey control network, all together with the proper data collection methods to achieve the appropriate accuracy. This gives our clients or designers the best possible chances of project success. I've been in the position as a designer as well and can speak from experience. I actually started my career in civil engineering. I've had projects in the preliminary design phase. and was questioning the survey data. This is not a great feeling to have. It can affect your project timeline, lower your budget at best. At worst, poor data can cost you big once construction crews are on site attempting to build something you've designed from bad survey data. When it comes to asset management, the accuracy required can vary. For a network, say a network-wide mapping project of a utility system, sub-meter accuracy may be fine. For something like a dam or bridge monitoring project, we may be providing survey data at the highest accuracy possible in order to detect and track the slightest movements of the structures.

Mollie (Host)
And I think it's interesting that you have this background, right? You have the professional engineer side. So you felt what clients are feeling when they're like, I don't know if this data is accurate. I'm a little concerned about it. And then now you're on the flip side of that where you get to go in and fix that and make sure it is accurate from the beginning, which I think is so important and just such a great asset for you and your clients. So what are some of the biggest misconceptions that clients have about modern survey technology?

Keith (Guest)
For the most part, clients are aware of technology like GPS and drones. Years ago, there was a bit more wonder about those. Maybe the misconception now is that clients think these things are totally automated. and what we're doing must be easy. What is not seen as the planning and training behind the perfect execution of our work. In order to perform a successful drone flight, for example, we need to research the site, flight restrictions set up on the correct datum, set out survey control in strategic locations that can be seen from the air. We almost always conduct a conventional survey to supplement the drone survey. Then we analyze the data post-process, etc. The client may see us on site for part of a day, but the overall commitment is definitely way more. Another big misconception that comes to mind is that clients and the general public at large tend to put a lot of misguided trust into GIS mapping that is available online. GIS standing for Geographic Information System. The misconceptions are frequently related to how property lines are depicted. Most counties in the US have parcel maps, which are very useful. However, the locations of the property lines are at best guess for the most part. Only recently, and not everywhere, have property lines been uploaded into these assessor maps with any accuracy. Most of the property lines that you're seeing come from the recreation of old plats that predate GIS and even computers. The same is often true for the utility mapping layers of GIS datasets. If you really need to know where the property line or the utility is located for your project, you should have it surveyed.

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Mollie (Host)
I think those are great points and misconceptions that people are having because yeah, you can only be seen out there actually flying the drones, collecting the data for a short amount of time, but you're doing a lot more work on the back end back in the office. And also along with that, You have to be certified to fly those drones. You have to learn how to collect all the data properly and everything like that. There is a lot of work that goes into it. I would never say what you guys do is easy. That's new to me of knowing that those property line maps come from some outdated data. Those might not be the greatest thing to look at. You need to do those and make sure that you do have a standard set that is accurate. You hit on drones and a couple other technologies in your last answer there. So mobile LiDAR and 3D scanning and drones are becoming more common. Where are you seeing these tools make the biggest impact?

Keith (Guest)
Well, there are now specialized drones for confined spaces. SEH can utilize these drones as well based on our project needs. Scanning has been around for a while, but the speed of data capture is still advancing. allowing us to cover more area faster. Mobile LiDAR has seen recent developments in the form of SLAM scanning, which stands for Simultaneous Localization and Mapping, in which a LiDAR becomes mobile and can capture data while moving, giving us the ability to capture data in complex or tight environments, say within buildings, tunnels, under tree cover. SEH has recently invested in this technology, and I'm excited to start utilizing it in our future projects.

Mollie (Host)
Yeah, we actually had Bailey on in an earlier episode and she talked about our different drones that we have in our fleet, along with my personal favorite, Connie, our confined spaces drone. I love following where Connie's at and what she's getting into at the moment on our social medias. But it is amazing all the different tools that you guys really have in your toolkit and how you can really streamline and pinpoint projects and making sure that you have the right tools to get the data sets needed. It's amazing. There's often pressure, like you just said, they want us to move quick, right? And we're trying to get data at a faster rate. What risks show up when surveying is rushed or treated as a checkbox instead of a critical project phase?

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Keith (Guest)
Thank you very much for asking this question. Unfortunately, this is something we deal with constantly. Much focus is concentrated on the design of projects, but we forget the foundation on which these designs are built. Surveying and civil engineering really go hand in hand. I saw this as I was interning in my hometown surveying and engineering firm on summer breaks in college. While I was an engineering major at the time, this firm was small enough that we had to pitch in everywhere anytime you were needed. I began joining the survey crew in the field and collecting the data I would then use for the design of new roads, sewer lines, site grading plans, etc. I was lucky to have this experience and I quickly saw that this data needs to be good and care needs to be taken to collect the right data accurately. And there's a lot to it. It's hard work that takes place outside in all kinds of weather. It can be very physical, meticulous, and also cerebral. Timing is key as well. Our work takes time and there are lead times associated with our schedule. This may be waiting for a title report, utility locates, sometimes we need to send out notices to affected landowners that our work will be taking place on their land. There's lead time associated with that. If we are producing a topographic survey for design purposes where infrastructure is getting built against property lines or setbacks, we're also going to be conducting research and field work as if we were completing a boundary survey as well. All the data we share with our designers needs to be correct. Like anyone, if we are pressured to rush the process, this increases our likelihood of making a mistake. When surveying is treated like a checkbox, there are other side effects. When there isn't much thought put into requesting a survey, we may be requested to survey a huge area when really the project is focused on a small portion of that area. Or if we're requested to survey all the trees on the property, well, that may be thousands of trees. Is it possible that more detail is needed in just a small area? It's to the benefit of the project when surveyor requests are well thought out.

Mollie (Host)
100% agree. I think with anything, we need to move quickly just to continue to keep projects active and moving forward. But it needs to take its time as well, especially in this foundational piece of it. Because like you said, if it is messed up at the beginning, it will trickle through the entire project and you're going to have to redo it. And nobody wants that on either side of the spectrum here. Now, How does better survey data reduce surprises during construction? So like we were just talking about where we want to find those issues early on in the process. What are some of those surprises that you're catching?

Keith (Guest)
That's right. Good survey data helps us avoid issues like grade busts, utility conflicts, property lines being in the wrong spot, et cetera. When construction happens, the cost per hour has now increased substantially. When questions or surprises come up, You now have a crew of construction workers or multiple crews sitting idle together with the equipment they're using that costs a substantial amount of money to operate or rent. At this point, it would have been much more cost effective to have given the surveyor the necessary time and budget to collect good data.

Mollie (Host)
Yeah, so take the time initially, do it right the first time, and then you'll know about those surprises ahead of time and won't have to stall out during the project. Now many owners are interested in digital twins and long-term infrastructure management. How does surveying support those larger goals?

Keith (Guest)
There are a lot of possibilities here, but I'll focus on a few general applications. Surveying supports infrastructure management in this way by providing our 3D models of physical environments, which come from our field surveys, our scans, and our drone surveys. This could mean a deliverable from our confined spaces drone that allows clients to inspect inaccessible and hazardous structures. It could be a robotic total station scan of the inside of a facility for the purpose of planning new process piping or equipment. When we perform an accurate as-built survey of a pipeline or building, this data can be used in a spatial database and can be very valuable for asset management and future planning.

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Mollie (Host)
So what types of project benefit the most then from advanced surveying or reality capture technologies? Is there like a certain area that you're seeing more in versus others?

Keith (Guest)
Typically, these would be the larger areas or more complex sites. A few good examples are, say, a drainage study of a 100-acre parcel. Depending on the ground cover, this may be a perfect use of a LiDAR drone to capture topography efficiently. Complex architectural retrofits are great for scan to BIM workflows. Hazardous inspections or infrastructure inspections are a great use for mobile mapping and drones, keeping our crews safe.

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Mollie (Host)
And then the last thing, because you just talked about the crews and keeping them safe, which leads perfectly into my next question here. The survey industry is facing a workforce challenge. What skills are becoming more important for the next generation of survey professionals?

Keith (Guest)
Well, data analysis and data management, as I mentioned, has become something we must be good at. Being tech savvy is hugely important and being able to adapt with the ever-changing technology, new software packages and tools we use to do our work. You can't become too stuck in your ways when it comes to certain technology these days. Even though technology is changing so fast, we can't forget the basics, analyzing field evidence, boundary review and boundary law. We're losing institutional knowledge fast as our workforce is aging and retiring. I would like to emphasize the need for the next generation to find a good mentor and learn as much history as we can from them. I hope that we can start and continue a trend of getting more involved earlier with universities or school career days to promote a profession.

Mollie (Host)
Yeah, I think as technology continues to change, and like we've talked about today, it's evolving rapidly in this industry, you still have to know the basics, you have to know how to do it by hand, you have to know what kind of data you're getting and outputs from that technology in order to be successful with it. So that institutional knowledge is key, like you just talked about, and it is going away quickly, which is kind of a scary thing. But Keith, I think you would be a great mentor. So we need to get you to some career fairs or get in touch with some of our interns.

Keith (Guest)
That's right.

Mollie (Host)
So looking ahead, where do you see the surveying industry evolving over the next five to ten years?

Keith (Guest)
I see the current trends continuing as far as data is concerned. More data and more data analysis. Automation of data analysis will need to become more effective; I think it will. There are upcoming changes to the coordinate systems we utilize. We just need to be nimble and embrace change. The technology we use will continue to become more widely available, so it's the understanding of how this technology is working, the basics behind it that will separate the true professionals. We will continue to use cutting-edge technology, whatever that ends up being, just as we always have, and it will continue to be an exciting ride. I think surveying will still offer the ability for future professionals to work outdoors, travel, and see new places.

e're surveying areas of land now in a day, which would Mollie (Host)
Which are all great things. So, today's conversation highlights something every infrastructure project depends on. Good decisions start with good data. Surveying is no longer just about documenting existing conditions. It's about creating the digital foundation that helps projects move faster, reduce risk, improve coordination, and support smarter infrastructure investments long after construction is complete. Keith, thank you so much for sharing your insights into how the surveying industry continues to evolve alongside the technology shaping modern project delivery. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming conversations exploring the people, technology, and ideas shaping the future of infrastructure. Until next time, I'm Mollie Sabo, and this has been {Brief}ly Speaking.